If you're here to read about Overclockers UK and their RMA service or problems in the 7900 line of Nvidia video cards, then everything below this post will be of interest to you. If you want a shorter account of Overclockers UK RMA service, then this page contains screenshots of the problem, a photo of the card and all raw correspondence on the matter.
Update:
Here's another thread at Overclockers UK that has popped up recently on the subject. I'll be curious to see if that thread gets deleted as well. It's clear there is a fault with some of the Palit 7900gs cards they sold back near the latter half of 2006. And it's clear that they have taken the same tactical approach, that they took to my particular case, with other customers that have the same problem.
More responses to the new thread. I'll try to keep updating the thread screen caps here as I doubt the thread will go on too long before it's deleted:
1, 2, 3.
Tuesday 20 March 2007
Sunday 18 March 2007
Every affirmation is a denial
I had mentioned that there was a forum thread at the Overclockers UK webboard for the video card, but I never provided a link to the thread. The reason I didn't provide a link is that the entire thread has now been deleted from the board. A few other responses had appeared from differing forum users who had also received terrible after sales service. The thread was located here, but I suppose any sort of discussion that casts the company in a poor light isn't allowed on the boards. My intention in posting in that thread was mostly centred around informing any other owners of a product that was covered by the Overclockers UK warranty service what they might face. Furthermore, anyone who had purchased the same product as myself was possibly facing having to deal with this issue. In short, I described the RMA service for the product the thread was about. I have serious doubts that if the product had been covered by the manufacturer's warranty service, and I had then described that service on the messageboard that the thread would have been deleted.
To return to our "special" friend Andy, one final time: I should say that, in actuality, he's probably quite good at his job. This might sound like a surprising thing to say, but if you consider carefully what his job is it might become clearer. On the surface, it would seem that it is "tech support", but after my experiences I have come to realize that his role is not to support the customers -- it is to deflect them. It is to frustrate them, ignore them, misinform them and to, in short, be rid of them. So, in that capacity, he does a great job. The only conclusion I can draw from my experiences to date is that it must be company policy to make the RMA process as difficult as possible for the customer in order to save the costs and efforts of actually having to provide support services for some product lines. So, seizing upon any excuse that seems even mildly plausible in order to avoid proper RMA service would seem to be a tactic employed to further this end. Andy did his job -- his job requires a person of a particular character -- I'll let the reader decide what other "special" qualities one would need in order to do his job.
Back to the state of things: After receiving the final reply stating they would not have the card back I decided to take the matter to consumer protection and see what could be done. After contacting Consumer Direct I recieved a reply stating that I was covered under the sale of goods act that ensures goods supplied must be of satisfactory quality -- meaning durable and free from minor defects. Furthermore, that since the trader had effectively found no fault with the goods that it was up to me to prove that the fault has not been caused by myself. And to do this I would need to seek independent inspection of the video card. Okay, good clear advice on what a next step should be. But that's the rub really -- and where traders of this sort make their living. The consumer is in a position where he/she may now be faced with throwing "good money after bad". That is, the consumer is now faced with cutting losses or risking more money, time and hassle to see the matter resolved.
So, what next? I suppose there is also the possibility of contacting the credit card company and pursuing the matter via that route, as well. Also, I can try and find a computer parts retailer I can take the card to and have them independently test it. I can also leave it lie here and hope that, at the very least, others will heed (hehe, no pun intended...really) this tale and not spend their money at an establishment who would behave as I've described -- and replace the card myself. I'm still not sure, at this point, which of those options I will choose.
I do know that this issue isn't just about the retailer, though. Of course, it is the main stumbling block in this case, but there is an issue with some of 7xxx line of video cards and it would have been nice to actually have seen Nvidia acknowledge it. Some of their manufacturers stepped forward and took some responsibility in the matter, but as far as I can see Nvidia has been silent on the issue. I've seen numerous speculations on what the exact issue may be -- ranging from clocks set too high, bad/incorrect voltage regulators, bad/incorrect capacitors and more. There's also the question of Palit, my card's actual manufacturer, and the conditions in which they sold the cards in the first place. The retailer assumed branding, of a sort, along with warranty obligations, but why? Were the cards sold and/or purchased knowing that they might possibly go bad? It still seems to me that since the GS line is basically just a cut down GT that it would be quite easy for the fault to migrate to the GS line. For example, were older and then known to be faulty PCB's used for the GS line of cards in some circumstances? Those talking about the capacitor issue note that newer revisions of the GT line have had two capacitors changed on them. They focus on two capacitors that have "mint green" caps as being the culprit in the older revisions -- my card uses those capacitors. My own investigation shows that the card definitely has a video memory problem. That was what I had suspected, but it is good see some test that can confirm my suspicion. Whether the video memory chips themselves are the problem or the memory chips were damaged by one of the other possible causes is unknown to me. I suppose no one can say for sure unless someone from Nvidia or Palit decide to comment, and hehe, I find that very unlikely.
I should be clear that this is not some mindless bashing of one graphics card company over another -- I could care less which manufacturer I buy from. I only usually look to see who has the best offering for the best price at the time I'm looking to buy. The whole "mine is better than yours" or "it's the best kind because it's the one I have" mentality that is around is not worth my time.
I'm not sure this issue is over yet as it took about six months for my card to fail, so there's likely quite a few cards out there from x-mas purchases, etc. that will be nearing that age soon. It will be interesting to see if more reports begin to appear regarding the GS line or if the issue is much more localized to "a bad batch or two". In my research I found a huge thread on the WOW boards where a lot of people are seeing the same kind of corruption as myself. Now, a lot of blame is being put on the expansion for that game "ruining video cards" and I find that quite unlikely -- directly. That is, I could see an expansion upping demands on the graphics card which would then reveal a heretofore hidden fault, but I don't see how software could actually damage hardware under normal circumstances. You also have the usual incorrect "I have this problem too" replies which turn out to be something different, but the bulk of the issues look and sound like they are the same as mine. I don't play the game, so I have no idea what they did for the expansion, but I do know a lot of people do play the game and that a percentage of them are experiencing hardware faults very similar to the one I have experienced. It will be interesting to see if that list grows significantly over the next few months or if the "bump in the road" has been mostly passed over...
To return to our "special" friend Andy, one final time: I should say that, in actuality, he's probably quite good at his job. This might sound like a surprising thing to say, but if you consider carefully what his job is it might become clearer. On the surface, it would seem that it is "tech support", but after my experiences I have come to realize that his role is not to support the customers -- it is to deflect them. It is to frustrate them, ignore them, misinform them and to, in short, be rid of them. So, in that capacity, he does a great job. The only conclusion I can draw from my experiences to date is that it must be company policy to make the RMA process as difficult as possible for the customer in order to save the costs and efforts of actually having to provide support services for some product lines. So, seizing upon any excuse that seems even mildly plausible in order to avoid proper RMA service would seem to be a tactic employed to further this end. Andy did his job -- his job requires a person of a particular character -- I'll let the reader decide what other "special" qualities one would need in order to do his job.
Back to the state of things: After receiving the final reply stating they would not have the card back I decided to take the matter to consumer protection and see what could be done. After contacting Consumer Direct I recieved a reply stating that I was covered under the sale of goods act that ensures goods supplied must be of satisfactory quality -- meaning durable and free from minor defects. Furthermore, that since the trader had effectively found no fault with the goods that it was up to me to prove that the fault has not been caused by myself. And to do this I would need to seek independent inspection of the video card. Okay, good clear advice on what a next step should be. But that's the rub really -- and where traders of this sort make their living. The consumer is in a position where he/she may now be faced with throwing "good money after bad". That is, the consumer is now faced with cutting losses or risking more money, time and hassle to see the matter resolved.
So, what next? I suppose there is also the possibility of contacting the credit card company and pursuing the matter via that route, as well. Also, I can try and find a computer parts retailer I can take the card to and have them independently test it. I can also leave it lie here and hope that, at the very least, others will heed (hehe, no pun intended...really) this tale and not spend their money at an establishment who would behave as I've described -- and replace the card myself. I'm still not sure, at this point, which of those options I will choose.
I do know that this issue isn't just about the retailer, though. Of course, it is the main stumbling block in this case, but there is an issue with some of 7xxx line of video cards and it would have been nice to actually have seen Nvidia acknowledge it. Some of their manufacturers stepped forward and took some responsibility in the matter, but as far as I can see Nvidia has been silent on the issue. I've seen numerous speculations on what the exact issue may be -- ranging from clocks set too high, bad/incorrect voltage regulators, bad/incorrect capacitors and more. There's also the question of Palit, my card's actual manufacturer, and the conditions in which they sold the cards in the first place. The retailer assumed branding, of a sort, along with warranty obligations, but why? Were the cards sold and/or purchased knowing that they might possibly go bad? It still seems to me that since the GS line is basically just a cut down GT that it would be quite easy for the fault to migrate to the GS line. For example, were older and then known to be faulty PCB's used for the GS line of cards in some circumstances? Those talking about the capacitor issue note that newer revisions of the GT line have had two capacitors changed on them. They focus on two capacitors that have "mint green" caps as being the culprit in the older revisions -- my card uses those capacitors. My own investigation shows that the card definitely has a video memory problem. That was what I had suspected, but it is good see some test that can confirm my suspicion. Whether the video memory chips themselves are the problem or the memory chips were damaged by one of the other possible causes is unknown to me. I suppose no one can say for sure unless someone from Nvidia or Palit decide to comment, and hehe, I find that very unlikely.
I should be clear that this is not some mindless bashing of one graphics card company over another -- I could care less which manufacturer I buy from. I only usually look to see who has the best offering for the best price at the time I'm looking to buy. The whole "mine is better than yours" or "it's the best kind because it's the one I have" mentality that is around is not worth my time.
I'm not sure this issue is over yet as it took about six months for my card to fail, so there's likely quite a few cards out there from x-mas purchases, etc. that will be nearing that age soon. It will be interesting to see if more reports begin to appear regarding the GS line or if the issue is much more localized to "a bad batch or two". In my research I found a huge thread on the WOW boards where a lot of people are seeing the same kind of corruption as myself. Now, a lot of blame is being put on the expansion for that game "ruining video cards" and I find that quite unlikely -- directly. That is, I could see an expansion upping demands on the graphics card which would then reveal a heretofore hidden fault, but I don't see how software could actually damage hardware under normal circumstances. You also have the usual incorrect "I have this problem too" replies which turn out to be something different, but the bulk of the issues look and sound like they are the same as mine. I don't play the game, so I have no idea what they did for the expansion, but I do know a lot of people do play the game and that a percentage of them are experiencing hardware faults very similar to the one I have experienced. It will be interesting to see if that list grows significantly over the next few months or if the "bump in the road" has been mostly passed over...
Saturday 17 March 2007
"Hi, I'm Homer Simpson. Remember me? I mooned for rebuttal."
Still trying to get my brain to tidy up everything that had transpired I stared at the phone for 30 seconds or so -- I honestly couldn't believe that someone could be so insecure that when challenged the best he could muster up in terms of a riposte was to hang up the phone. "Hi, I'm Homer Simpson. Remember me? I mooned for rebuttal". It was getting pretty clear now that nothing had really gotten confused or mistaken in the RMA process, but that I was dealing with incompetence or dishonest business practices -- or both. My brother-in-law said something to the effect of, "Yep, welcome to customer service in the UK".
I had mentioned on Overclockers UK webboard that I was going to have to RMA the card and someone else with the same card said he was having the same problems with his card. He asked me to let him know how the RMA would go. So, after the phone conversation I detailed in the message thread what had transpired to date. The thread was about 4 pages long and was for discussion of that specific card. I figured it was best to first let anyone else who might be in my same position know what he might face. After that, I decided to fire off another web note and see if it might get through to someone who might actually be interested in providing some level of customer service. I outlined the situation to date and expressed my displeasure with the service and Andy's behaviour. I also mentioned that the situation was starting to appear as a deliberate attempt to shift responsibility of the fault to me in order for Overclockers UK to absolve themselves of any warranty responsibilites -- and that this was not acceptable. Also, I added that if I must go to consumer protection agencies I will, but that I would prefer to resolve the issue without such measures. The note was sent off about 7pm, so I didn't expect a reply until the next day. By 3pm the next day (Overclockers UK mention that web notes are usually answered within 4 working hours) I had received no reply. So, I decided to return to their messageboard to see if anything else had been posted after I left my account of the RMA. A couple of responses had been added. One by the fellow with the same card as myself and he was rather concerned by my tale of the RMA. Another response by someone who was shocked at what had transpired and was as confused as I was about me having received an order slip and new order number for the replacement but no replacement itself. The second poster also suggested I try to phone again to talk to someone else and that there must be a mix up somewhere. So, I responded and said that I have sent another web note but have received no response so far.
About 20-30 minutes after that I get a response. It's from a different person and is basically a canned response: "We understand that the card may be faulty but the corruptions more than likely have been caused by the dust and gunk that was in the fan. With the fan covered in dust it will cause overheating problem." (I'll post all the actual communications up later in a seperate web page). Hehe, there's that term "likely" again. Translation: "We didn't test the card but noticed some dust on it -- we think we can now absolve ourselves of any warranty claims". Still willing to try once more, I send of another web note thanking the guy for his response but also noting it's obvious he hasn't read the previous communications. I also detailed out the salient points of the situation for him once again. Shortly thereafter a response from another person arrives: "I talked to Andy and we're not having this card back". It was truly worse than I had imagined -- it sounded like Andy was actually in charge of "tech support". Man, that's like having Homer in charge of safety at a nuclear power plant...Doh!
I had mentioned on Overclockers UK webboard that I was going to have to RMA the card and someone else with the same card said he was having the same problems with his card. He asked me to let him know how the RMA would go. So, after the phone conversation I detailed in the message thread what had transpired to date. The thread was about 4 pages long and was for discussion of that specific card. I figured it was best to first let anyone else who might be in my same position know what he might face. After that, I decided to fire off another web note and see if it might get through to someone who might actually be interested in providing some level of customer service. I outlined the situation to date and expressed my displeasure with the service and Andy's behaviour. I also mentioned that the situation was starting to appear as a deliberate attempt to shift responsibility of the fault to me in order for Overclockers UK to absolve themselves of any warranty responsibilites -- and that this was not acceptable. Also, I added that if I must go to consumer protection agencies I will, but that I would prefer to resolve the issue without such measures. The note was sent off about 7pm, so I didn't expect a reply until the next day. By 3pm the next day (Overclockers UK mention that web notes are usually answered within 4 working hours) I had received no reply. So, I decided to return to their messageboard to see if anything else had been posted after I left my account of the RMA. A couple of responses had been added. One by the fellow with the same card as myself and he was rather concerned by my tale of the RMA. Another response by someone who was shocked at what had transpired and was as confused as I was about me having received an order slip and new order number for the replacement but no replacement itself. The second poster also suggested I try to phone again to talk to someone else and that there must be a mix up somewhere. So, I responded and said that I have sent another web note but have received no response so far.
About 20-30 minutes after that I get a response. It's from a different person and is basically a canned response: "We understand that the card may be faulty but the corruptions more than likely have been caused by the dust and gunk that was in the fan. With the fan covered in dust it will cause overheating problem." (I'll post all the actual communications up later in a seperate web page). Hehe, there's that term "likely" again. Translation: "We didn't test the card but noticed some dust on it -- we think we can now absolve ourselves of any warranty claims". Still willing to try once more, I send of another web note thanking the guy for his response but also noting it's obvious he hasn't read the previous communications. I also detailed out the salient points of the situation for him once again. Shortly thereafter a response from another person arrives: "I talked to Andy and we're not having this card back". It was truly worse than I had imagined -- it sounded like Andy was actually in charge of "tech support". Man, that's like having Homer in charge of safety at a nuclear power plant...Doh!
Friday 16 March 2007
Enter Paxman
Right. I wait on queue for a few minutes for my call to be responded to and then get an answer. I provide the RMA number and when the guy has the information he reads back to me the description of the fault (dust, overheating, etc.). I begin to make the point that the card was not overheating, is not "absolutely caked" in anything and that I'm "very angry right now". At this point the guy says "I'm just the guy that takes the phone calls", or something to that effect. Hehe, okay, no problem -- no point going any further with him so I ask if I can speak to the person who examined the card. I wait a moment and someone says, "I'm Andy, I examined your card". Okay, now we're getting somewhere -- surely there's just been a mix up or confusion. Andy continues, "The card is absolutely caked in tar/nicotene and dust and it's likely overheating". Arggh. I begin to insist to Andy that card is not "absolutely caked" and furthermore that I know the card is not overheating and begin to recite the temperatures it operates at -- yeah, I know them off the top of my head, at this point. I think Andy says something to the effect of, "It will do won't it?". I'm not sure what he meant by this unless he thinks the temperatures I had just recited are too hot for the card -- which they aren't. I then ask Andy if he actually tested the card. Andy replies, "I don't have to". Huh? He doesn't have to test the card? Let's think about this for a moment: Andy has diagnosed overheating due to dust build up all without ever actually running the card in an operating environment. I'm trying to comprehend what actually took place when I sent the card in, at this point. I can only assume Andy looked at the card, saw it was dusty, managed to either physically or psychically link himself to the piece of hardware and was able to intuit what temperatures it runs at. Andy surely must be the most gifted technician known to human kind -- he need merely be in the presence of a piece of hardware to know exactly how it operates when hooked up and running. Andy must be very "special", indeed.
In all seriousness, I could see if a brick had been dropped on the thing that it would be pretty obvious what the problem was and one could likely diagnose the problem with just a visual inspection. However, that would be more like a classic Mythbusters', "Well thar's yer problem!", moment. When it comes to something like an intermittent fault and you suspect it to be heat related, well, it's fairly wise to actually plug the thing in and find out what temperatures it runs at. You know, actually backing up a claim with evidence and some objective testing -- that kind of thing.
Back to the actual phone call: I must admit that my brain, at this point, was having some difficulties processing the whole situation. It's like a piece of data had come in at a completely wrong trajectory and neurons were scurrying around trying to get it all tidied up and sorted to where it should be. I think Andy may still have been maintaining that the card is overheating and I'm still reciting the operating temperatures. Enter Paxman (4 min. mark is where the good bit begins). Well, I then keep returning to the question, "Did you test the card?". I continue, "Did you test the card?", "You didn't test the card?", "But you haven't tested the card", "Did you t-e-s-t the card?", and so on. I wasn't abusive or yelling, but I was definitely insistent that he would have needed to actually test the card to reach a conclusion. This is where the phone then goes silent. There may have been a click first, but I can't really recall now. Andy had used his "special" powers once again, and seemingly, he can also manipulate hardware in the same way he can diagnose faults in it -- nah, he had just hung up on me...
In all seriousness, I could see if a brick had been dropped on the thing that it would be pretty obvious what the problem was and one could likely diagnose the problem with just a visual inspection. However, that would be more like a classic Mythbusters', "Well thar's yer problem!", moment. When it comes to something like an intermittent fault and you suspect it to be heat related, well, it's fairly wise to actually plug the thing in and find out what temperatures it runs at. You know, actually backing up a claim with evidence and some objective testing -- that kind of thing.
Back to the actual phone call: I must admit that my brain, at this point, was having some difficulties processing the whole situation. It's like a piece of data had come in at a completely wrong trajectory and neurons were scurrying around trying to get it all tidied up and sorted to where it should be. I think Andy may still have been maintaining that the card is overheating and I'm still reciting the operating temperatures. Enter Paxman (4 min. mark is where the good bit begins). Well, I then keep returning to the question, "Did you test the card?". I continue, "Did you test the card?", "You didn't test the card?", "But you haven't tested the card", "Did you t-e-s-t the card?", and so on. I wasn't abusive or yelling, but I was definitely insistent that he would have needed to actually test the card to reach a conclusion. This is where the phone then goes silent. There may have been a click first, but I can't really recall now. Andy had used his "special" powers once again, and seemingly, he can also manipulate hardware in the same way he can diagnose faults in it -- nah, he had just hung up on me...
Thursday 15 March 2007
106686
So, I'm now looking at having to RMA my videocard and get it replaced. I should mention as well that I ran various other system tests to rule that some other component was at fault. Although, after seeing the posts describing my exact problem and that the video card turned out to be failing, I really didn't have much doubt left that it wasn't the video card that was at fault.
Now that I've come to the RMA I need to provide some information on the card itself and the retailer. The retailer I used was Overclockers UK and card is the OCUK 7900GS. The card is actually the Palit 7900GS and is simply referred to as an "OCUK" brand by the retailer. I assume because Palit is not responsible for any warranty/maintenance. The product is under 1 year warranty which the retailer covers (it might be UK law that they must provide warranty services if the manufacturer doesn't, but I'm not positive). I wasn't really concerned about the warranty coverage because after a year computer parts are generally old tech anyways (graphics cards in particular). I figured a 1 year return for replacement would be fine. However, I didn't really stop to consider how the retailer would cover this warranty. Most of my experiences with faulty goods have been pretty straightforward in that it was a matter of return, confirm fault and then repair or replace. Heh, I won't be likely to make that mistake again.
I go to the retailer's web site and find the RMA procedure. They use a "web note" system which is basically a bunch of predefined text fields for basic information like order number, computer specs, etc. There's also a section for comments. You fill out the form, fire it off and it goes to their "tech support". I fill out my form, describe the issue thoroughly and request a RMA. A reply in email form arrives and tells me a RMA is granted, a RMA number is provided and instructions on how to return the item are sent in a second email. At this point, I'm thinking these guys are pretty much on the ball and I'm feeling fairly confident about the whole process. It takes me a couple of days to get the card sent back and in the meantime I put up a web page with screenshots illustrating the problem and instructions on how to reproduce the problem. I know troubleshooting and testing things can be tedious and/or tricky, so I figure it's best to provide as much clear information as posible. I fire off another web note letting the "tech support" guys know of the page and send the card back. Another email response arrives and says that the page has been seen and that they would be sure to test and stress the card thoroughly. Excellent, no problem then. Well, so it seemed. Another email arrives stating the card has arrived. And then another arrives stating that a replacement card will be shipped when stocks allow under a new order number. One more email arrives stating the replacement has been shipped under the new order number and will arrive next day. Things are looking great at this point: I shipped the card back on the Saturday and the replcement was due to arrive on the following Tuesday -- the whole RMA cycle and back to having a working PC in a few days.
The order arrives on the stated day and I open up the box. This is where things get good -- inside the box is my original video card that I had sent back for RMA. Keep in mind that the last communication I had had was that a replacement had been shipped. Inside the main box is an order slip showing the replacement at no charge under the new order number that had been issued -- but no replacement card itself. Also inside the box was the box I had shipped the original card out in containing the original card. Inside the box along with my video card was a note stating that, "The heatsink/fan is absolutely caked in tar/nicotene and dust which is likely the cause of overheating causing corruptions". Also, "Warranty void". Now, there certainly is some dust build up on the fan/heatsink -- the card had been in a computer case for almost six months. However, the card is far from being "absolutely caked" in anything. I'll let the reader decide if "absolutely caked" is an apt description.
Furthermore, the diagnosis of overheating was something that I had already ruled out myself, so whatever the level of any dust build up it was not causing the card to run at an abnormal temperature. Then I read the sentence again and noted more carefully that the term "likely" had been used to describe the fault. Had this card even been tested at all? I was fully aware of the temperatures the card operates at, so why wasn't "tech support" aware of those temperatures? I decided I had better phone them and find out exactly what was going on...
Now that I've come to the RMA I need to provide some information on the card itself and the retailer. The retailer I used was Overclockers UK and card is the OCUK 7900GS. The card is actually the Palit 7900GS and is simply referred to as an "OCUK" brand by the retailer. I assume because Palit is not responsible for any warranty/maintenance. The product is under 1 year warranty which the retailer covers (it might be UK law that they must provide warranty services if the manufacturer doesn't, but I'm not positive). I wasn't really concerned about the warranty coverage because after a year computer parts are generally old tech anyways (graphics cards in particular). I figured a 1 year return for replacement would be fine. However, I didn't really stop to consider how the retailer would cover this warranty. Most of my experiences with faulty goods have been pretty straightforward in that it was a matter of return, confirm fault and then repair or replace. Heh, I won't be likely to make that mistake again.
I go to the retailer's web site and find the RMA procedure. They use a "web note" system which is basically a bunch of predefined text fields for basic information like order number, computer specs, etc. There's also a section for comments. You fill out the form, fire it off and it goes to their "tech support". I fill out my form, describe the issue thoroughly and request a RMA. A reply in email form arrives and tells me a RMA is granted, a RMA number is provided and instructions on how to return the item are sent in a second email. At this point, I'm thinking these guys are pretty much on the ball and I'm feeling fairly confident about the whole process. It takes me a couple of days to get the card sent back and in the meantime I put up a web page with screenshots illustrating the problem and instructions on how to reproduce the problem. I know troubleshooting and testing things can be tedious and/or tricky, so I figure it's best to provide as much clear information as posible. I fire off another web note letting the "tech support" guys know of the page and send the card back. Another email response arrives and says that the page has been seen and that they would be sure to test and stress the card thoroughly. Excellent, no problem then. Well, so it seemed. Another email arrives stating the card has arrived. And then another arrives stating that a replacement card will be shipped when stocks allow under a new order number. One more email arrives stating the replacement has been shipped under the new order number and will arrive next day. Things are looking great at this point: I shipped the card back on the Saturday and the replcement was due to arrive on the following Tuesday -- the whole RMA cycle and back to having a working PC in a few days.
The order arrives on the stated day and I open up the box. This is where things get good -- inside the box is my original video card that I had sent back for RMA. Keep in mind that the last communication I had had was that a replacement had been shipped. Inside the main box is an order slip showing the replacement at no charge under the new order number that had been issued -- but no replacement card itself. Also inside the box was the box I had shipped the original card out in containing the original card. Inside the box along with my video card was a note stating that, "The heatsink/fan is absolutely caked in tar/nicotene and dust which is likely the cause of overheating causing corruptions". Also, "Warranty void". Now, there certainly is some dust build up on the fan/heatsink -- the card had been in a computer case for almost six months. However, the card is far from being "absolutely caked" in anything. I'll let the reader decide if "absolutely caked" is an apt description.
Furthermore, the diagnosis of overheating was something that I had already ruled out myself, so whatever the level of any dust build up it was not causing the card to run at an abnormal temperature. Then I read the sentence again and noted more carefully that the term "likely" had been used to describe the fault. Had this card even been tested at all? I was fully aware of the temperatures the card operates at, so why wasn't "tech support" aware of those temperatures? I decided I had better phone them and find out exactly what was going on...
"Computers don't make mistakes -- the things they do they do on purpose."
Well, I suppose I should provide a little background before I launch into my tale. In September of 2006 it was time for me to do some upgrading to my aging computer system. At that time I was running an AMD XP 2000, Geforce 3 ti 200, 512 megs RAM, etc. I was anticipating the release of Neverwinter Nights 2 as I had been fairly involved in the first version of the game creating custom content, doing scripting, etc. I like to mod games -- it's my hobby. My old system wasn't going to cut it for running the new version of the game -- particularly the video card as the game's graphics engine had been completely replaced and required at least a shader model 2.0 capable video card. I was faced with simply upgrading the video card or doing a more full system upgrade. With PCI express interfaces becoming the standard over the older AGP interface it didn't seem particularly wise to buy a new video card based on an old interface since I would then be locked in to staying on an older platform. So, if I was going to go with a PCI express video card I also needed to upgrade my motherboard, RAM and CPU as well.
After a bit of research and poking about on the net I found an online retailer and put together a few possible combinations of hardware and priced them out. I ended up going for a MSI motherboard based on the 550 Nvidia chipset, an X2 3800 AMD dual core CPU, 1 gig of Geil DDR2 low latentcy RAM and a 7900GS Palit video card. The total came in at just over the budget I had set for myself -- £400. The system wouldn't be bleeding edge, but I never go for bleeding edge anyways as it's just not value for money. I probably would have been better off to wait a bit, in hindsight, as the core 2 duo's were out shortly thereafter and showed a fair bit of performance edge over the AMD offerings. No biggie really, as you have to pull the trigger at some point and actually make a purchase or you would never buy anything waiting for "what might be next". The system was still plenty beefy for what I do with it. The dual core CPU was a nice step up as I tend to have several hefty applications open at the same time while working on mods.
Anyway, I assembled the system without any serious hitches and all looked good. Neverwinter Nights 2 was released on October 31, 2006 (boo, scary, hehe) and the sytem handled it pretty well. The game is a bit of hog in terms of video card performance and received a patch or two to tighten it up, so performance improved a bit. All was well until the end of February or beginning of March this year. At this point I would occassionally notice that in a 3d scene it would appear that textures or polygons on certain areas of a model would be stretched out as if someone had pulled a vertex or two way out of position. I first noticed this on the cloak of my game character and originally thought a skinmesh weight was way off for the animation -- like a vertex or two had some whacky weight assignment. However, minimizing the game and then maximizing it would correct the problem, so it seemed it was actually a rendering error and not something inherent to the game, model or animation. I shrugged it off as I was running the game in windowed mode with a few other apps running as well.
I then began to see this behaviour in other apps/games as well as textures flickering, pixels turning white or other incorrect colours. Now sensing something was going seriously wrong somewhere I first checked temperature levels for the video card -- all looked good as it idled at the desktop between 39c-42c and under full load it was hitting about 55c-57c -- all well within normal ranges. I took the card out and checked for dust in the PCI-e slot as well as for anything on the card's "golden fingers" interface. All looked fine so I put the card back in and booted back up. Things seemed okay for a bit so I thought it was just "one of those things" that computers are so good at doing -- anyone who hasn't experienced the odd unexplained computer quirk is a lucky person. Although, hehe, Dale Gribble from King of the Hill had a great line in one episode where the permanently paranoid Dale intoned, "Computers don't make mistakes -- the things they do they do on purpose."
Unfortunately, it wasn't "just one of those things" as I was now starting to see pixel corruption on the desktop where a few pixels would be the incorrect colour (usually red, green or blue) or even flicker between various colour states -- not good. At this point I reached for Google and start looking for any accounts of similar types of display corruption (1 2 3 4). I came upon a few threads on the Nvidia boards (1 2 3) where the exact same corruption was being discussed as well as screenshots posted. The screenshots were identical to what I was seeing and there were even accounts given of the same pixel corruption on the desktop I was seeing. The problem didn't seem hugely widespread, but those that did have it all shared almost identical symptoms. Most of the discussions were of the 7900GT line of video cards, but those discussions had mostly began in May of 2006 before the GS line was released. The GS line is basically a cut down GT core (and may even share the same printed circuit board [PCB] layout as the GT), so it seemed reasonable that the fault could have easily migrated through to the GS line of cards. Most everyone who had the problem needed to RMA (return merchandise authorization) their video card and have it replaced. In short, if you had/have this problem your video card is dying and needs to be replaced...
After a bit of research and poking about on the net I found an online retailer and put together a few possible combinations of hardware and priced them out. I ended up going for a MSI motherboard based on the 550 Nvidia chipset, an X2 3800 AMD dual core CPU, 1 gig of Geil DDR2 low latentcy RAM and a 7900GS Palit video card. The total came in at just over the budget I had set for myself -- £400. The system wouldn't be bleeding edge, but I never go for bleeding edge anyways as it's just not value for money. I probably would have been better off to wait a bit, in hindsight, as the core 2 duo's were out shortly thereafter and showed a fair bit of performance edge over the AMD offerings. No biggie really, as you have to pull the trigger at some point and actually make a purchase or you would never buy anything waiting for "what might be next". The system was still plenty beefy for what I do with it. The dual core CPU was a nice step up as I tend to have several hefty applications open at the same time while working on mods.
Anyway, I assembled the system without any serious hitches and all looked good. Neverwinter Nights 2 was released on October 31, 2006 (boo, scary, hehe) and the sytem handled it pretty well. The game is a bit of hog in terms of video card performance and received a patch or two to tighten it up, so performance improved a bit. All was well until the end of February or beginning of March this year. At this point I would occassionally notice that in a 3d scene it would appear that textures or polygons on certain areas of a model would be stretched out as if someone had pulled a vertex or two way out of position. I first noticed this on the cloak of my game character and originally thought a skinmesh weight was way off for the animation -- like a vertex or two had some whacky weight assignment. However, minimizing the game and then maximizing it would correct the problem, so it seemed it was actually a rendering error and not something inherent to the game, model or animation. I shrugged it off as I was running the game in windowed mode with a few other apps running as well.
I then began to see this behaviour in other apps/games as well as textures flickering, pixels turning white or other incorrect colours. Now sensing something was going seriously wrong somewhere I first checked temperature levels for the video card -- all looked good as it idled at the desktop between 39c-42c and under full load it was hitting about 55c-57c -- all well within normal ranges. I took the card out and checked for dust in the PCI-e slot as well as for anything on the card's "golden fingers" interface. All looked fine so I put the card back in and booted back up. Things seemed okay for a bit so I thought it was just "one of those things" that computers are so good at doing -- anyone who hasn't experienced the odd unexplained computer quirk is a lucky person. Although, hehe, Dale Gribble from King of the Hill had a great line in one episode where the permanently paranoid Dale intoned, "Computers don't make mistakes -- the things they do they do on purpose."
Unfortunately, it wasn't "just one of those things" as I was now starting to see pixel corruption on the desktop where a few pixels would be the incorrect colour (usually red, green or blue) or even flicker between various colour states -- not good. At this point I reached for Google and start looking for any accounts of similar types of display corruption (1 2 3 4). I came upon a few threads on the Nvidia boards (1 2 3) where the exact same corruption was being discussed as well as screenshots posted. The screenshots were identical to what I was seeing and there were even accounts given of the same pixel corruption on the desktop I was seeing. The problem didn't seem hugely widespread, but those that did have it all shared almost identical symptoms. Most of the discussions were of the 7900GT line of video cards, but those discussions had mostly began in May of 2006 before the GS line was released. The GS line is basically a cut down GT core (and may even share the same printed circuit board [PCB] layout as the GT), so it seemed reasonable that the fault could have easily migrated through to the GS line of cards. Most everyone who had the problem needed to RMA (return merchandise authorization) their video card and have it replaced. In short, if you had/have this problem your video card is dying and needs to be replaced...
Welcome!
Hello to all. Well, I generally don't go for the old "dump your personal crap onto the net" kinda thing, but recently I've had a bit of a change of heart on that front. Actually, I don't intend to dump much personal crap out here, but when something strikes me that I feel might be worth a comment, explanation or narrative I'll endeavour to do so -- hopefully in either a somewhat entertaining or informative way -- or maybe both if I get lucky, hehe.
The first topic, and impetus to setup this blog, is my recent experiences with a failing video card I purchased back in September of 2006 and my dealings with the online retailer I purchased it from. Hmm, do you think it will be a happy tale of excellent service, knowledgable technicians and honest business practices? I suppose you can guess that a tale of that nature wouldn't be particularly worthy of mention. Although, I suppose we could do with more tales of that nature being presented on the net -- but good news stories don't seem to really attract much interest on the net or any other media form. As Don Henley put it: "It's interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry". So, I've got a pile of stinky T-Shirts here I'll let flap in the metaphorical breeze of this blog. The next entry will be installment one of this saga...
The first topic, and impetus to setup this blog, is my recent experiences with a failing video card I purchased back in September of 2006 and my dealings with the online retailer I purchased it from. Hmm, do you think it will be a happy tale of excellent service, knowledgable technicians and honest business practices? I suppose you can guess that a tale of that nature wouldn't be particularly worthy of mention. Although, I suppose we could do with more tales of that nature being presented on the net -- but good news stories don't seem to really attract much interest on the net or any other media form. As Don Henley put it: "It's interesting when people die, give us dirty laundry". So, I've got a pile of stinky T-Shirts here I'll let flap in the metaphorical breeze of this blog. The next entry will be installment one of this saga...
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